When I was in seminary and backed into a corner on a theological argument with no good defense, my preferred response was "Yeah, but my bishop can beat up your bishop."

I actually said that on more than one occasion, but as Bishop Louttit visited the seminary each year and ate lunch with me and John West in our Refectory (churchy name for cafeteria), people knew that my bishop (pictured at left) was unlikely to beat up anyone, much less someone else's bishop. He is a great man and a wonderful pastor to us pastors. I don't care that he doesn't have mad nunchuk skills or bow staff skills.
I thought of this because a
blog post at Resurgence in which a pastor enamored of The Ultimate Fighter contends that he knows why men aren't so big on church:
So, I'll just say that while young men are watching tough men compete, the reason they don't go to most churches is because they could take the pastor and can't respect a guy in a lemon-yellow sweater, sipping decaf and talking about his feelings.
I ran across this by way of a response from from
Henry's Web which said,
If you determine whether someone is worth listening to based on whether you could take him in a fight, if you despise someone because they wear a lemon-yellow sweater, sip decaf, or talk about their feelings, then you need to seriously reexamine both your intellectual and your spiritual life.
He might be right, but the point still holds. Even though I don't own a lemon yellow sweater and I wouldn't wear one if you bought it for me, I wouldn't last as long as a bull rider in the rodeo if you put me in the ring on The Ultimate Fighter. I did once show a video clip in a sermon from the movie Fight Club, but I am quite sure that's not the same thing.
What I heard at
The Church Planters' Boot Camp as I was working on preparing to start King of Peace was that a founding pastor has to pass the Beer Test.

Now this was said in a non-denominational, but largely evangelical church setting where drinking alcohol at all, much less for communion, is not always permitted. But the idea was that if the pastor isn't someone you would drink a beer with (or coffee or whatever) then you would probably wander on away from the church before getting connected. They said this mattered less with established church's as there are many more reasons than the pastor to join a church once well established. The claim was that in the early days of meeting in a school (or in our case a house) the pastor has to be someone you would want to spend time with even if it wasn't at church.
So I don't know if this is a more highly evolved answer, but I guess I am suggesting is that guys don't tend to look for a pastor who can blacken their eye or bloody their nose, but someone with whom they wouldn't mind drinking a beverage of choice with while watching The Ultimate Fighter. If you think, I'm right, leave a comment. If you think I'm wrong, meet me on the playground after school and we'll settle this thing there and then.
peace,
Frank+
The Rev. Frank Logue, Pastor
Labels: pastor, priesthood
6 Comments:
At 9/25/2007 9:22 AM,
Anonymous said…
"Ministry" is not my life, but priesthood is. As a priest I feel called to stand as a candle that gives the light of Jesus to the world around me. "Doing ministry" is an outcropping of being a priest.
At 9/25/2007 2:23 PM,
Loren said…
I find this pretty interesting as I contemplate leaving seminary and entering the next phase of my life. I think a job is something we have to do...ministry is something we get to do, and I do think that my call and my life are intertwined.
However, I disagree with number 1...I think being a husband and a father aren't really going to be that high up on my list of priorities... :)
At 9/25/2007 4:22 PM,
Anonymous said…
what constitutes success in your ministries? Failure?
How do you deal with that?
At 9/25/2007 6:54 PM,
Anonymous said…
Nobody could be a failure who truly applies him/herself to the work of the Lord. True success would be knowing that you honestly put forth your greatest effort with what God intended for you to do.
At 9/25/2007 10:19 PM,
The Bosom Serpent said…
How is the role of pastor different from the role of priest? I find that in the Orthodox tradition (at least my limited knowledge of it) the man named by my Bishop to serve in my parish is my Priest. Not that he isn't also my pastor but I believe his first calling is as Priest. I realize there may be a subtle differnce and I may be guilty of splitting hairs.
Which is more important being the pastor or being the priest?
At 9/26/2007 7:17 AM,
King of Peace said…
Jim, success and failure are ultimately determined by faithfulness to God's call. If you have been faithful to what God is calling you to do, then that is a success, if not that is failure. That said, the church as instituion will look at the ABCs—attendance, buildings and contributions—as signs of health or unhealth, growth or decline. In The Episcopal Church the prime number looked at is ASA or avereage Sunday attendance. What one has to deal with is that good, faithful people doing all they know to do may not see visible signs of success. We have to trust that God is present in those circumstances as well.
November, from a scriptural perspective, the prists of the New Testament are 1) Temple priests in Jerusalem, 2) Jesus as our Great High Priest and 3) the kingdom of priests who are all Christians. The role we now term priest is the Greek word presbyteros. That role is primarily a sacramental one in the Anglican (episcopal), Orthodox and Catholic traditions so that the person is authorized by a bishop to administer the sacraments in a place in the bishops absence. Pastor is the Latin word for shepherd and is considered one aspect of a priest's role in a congregation. To some degree this is theological hairsplitting. To another, it is trying to find the right language to describe what we are doing and why. To use the terms as defined here, the sacramental role of leading the community in worship is more important, but as that role is so closely identified with shepherding that same flock, I don't think the two can actually be separated.
peace,
Frank+
The Rev. Frank Logue, Priest, Pastor, Vicar
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