Irenic Thoughts

Irenic. The word means peaceful. This web log (or blog) exists to create an ongoing, and hopefully peaceful, series of comments on the life of King of Peace Episcopal Church. This is not a closed community. You are highly encouraged to comment on any post or to send your own posts.

9/25/2007

A Pastor's View of Ministry


Over at Resurgence, in a series on Death by Ministry, Mark Driscoll asks,
In what ways should a pastor view their ministry?
  • Ministry is your fourth priority after being a Christian, husband, and father.
  • Ministry is your job, not your life.
  • God rewards faithfulness, not just fruitfulness.
  • Your salvation and righteousness are gifts from Jesus and not contingent upon your performance.
  • If you do not Sabbath, God will impose a Sabbath upon you.
  • A series of sprints, with nine natural breaks out of the pulpit, rather than a marathon.
  • Jesus is the Senior Pastor and the church is His.
I disagree with the second point above and find something to like in all the rest.

For me, I tend to think of being a priest in terms of who I am called to be, more than what I am called to do. I am called to be a person who wants to be at the hospital in the middle of the night when someone needs me there. That instead of I am the one who has to go to the hospital in the middle of the night because someone called. Though to the degree that is true, I suspect that it applies to all Christians. We are all called to be increasingly more like Jesus, and it is the being that matters.

Do any of these work for you or is there another way you view the role of a pastor? What about the role of all Christians?

peace,
Frank+
The Rev. Frank Logue, Pastor

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6 Comments:

  • At 9/25/2007 9:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Ministry" is not my life, but priesthood is. As a priest I feel called to stand as a candle that gives the light of Jesus to the world around me. "Doing ministry" is an outcropping of being a priest.

     
  • At 9/25/2007 2:23 PM, Blogger Loren said…

    I find this pretty interesting as I contemplate leaving seminary and entering the next phase of my life. I think a job is something we have to do...ministry is something we get to do, and I do think that my call and my life are intertwined.

    However, I disagree with number 1...I think being a husband and a father aren't really going to be that high up on my list of priorities... :)

     
  • At 9/25/2007 4:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    what constitutes success in your ministries? Failure?

    How do you deal with that?

     
  • At 9/25/2007 6:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Nobody could be a failure who truly applies him/herself to the work of the Lord. True success would be knowing that you honestly put forth your greatest effort with what God intended for you to do.

     
  • At 9/25/2007 10:19 PM, Blogger The Bosom Serpent said…

    How is the role of pastor different from the role of priest? I find that in the Orthodox tradition (at least my limited knowledge of it) the man named by my Bishop to serve in my parish is my Priest. Not that he isn't also my pastor but I believe his first calling is as Priest. I realize there may be a subtle differnce and I may be guilty of splitting hairs.

    Which is more important being the pastor or being the priest?

     
  • At 9/26/2007 7:17 AM, Blogger King of Peace said…

    Jim, success and failure are ultimately determined by faithfulness to God's call. If you have been faithful to what God is calling you to do, then that is a success, if not that is failure. That said, the church as instituion will look at the ABCs—attendance, buildings and contributions—as signs of health or unhealth, growth or decline. In The Episcopal Church the prime number looked at is ASA or avereage Sunday attendance. What one has to deal with is that good, faithful people doing all they know to do may not see visible signs of success. We have to trust that God is present in those circumstances as well.

    November, from a scriptural perspective, the prists of the New Testament are 1) Temple priests in Jerusalem, 2) Jesus as our Great High Priest and 3) the kingdom of priests who are all Christians. The role we now term priest is the Greek word presbyteros. That role is primarily a sacramental one in the Anglican (episcopal), Orthodox and Catholic traditions so that the person is authorized by a bishop to administer the sacraments in a place in the bishops absence. Pastor is the Latin word for shepherd and is considered one aspect of a priest's role in a congregation. To some degree this is theological hairsplitting. To another, it is trying to find the right language to describe what we are doing and why. To use the terms as defined here, the sacramental role of leading the community in worship is more important, but as that role is so closely identified with shepherding that same flock, I don't think the two can actually be separated.

    peace,
    Frank+
    The Rev. Frank Logue, Priest, Pastor, Vicar

     

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9/18/2007

The Beer Test

When I was in seminary and backed into a corner on a theological argument with no good defense, my preferred response was "Yeah, but my bishop can beat up your bishop."

Bishop LouttitI actually said that on more than one occasion, but as Bishop Louttit visited the seminary each year and ate lunch with me and John West in our Refectory (churchy name for cafeteria), people knew that my bishop (pictured at left) was unlikely to beat up anyone, much less someone else's bishop. He is a great man and a wonderful pastor to us pastors. I don't care that he doesn't have mad nunchuk skills or bow staff skills.

I thought of this because a blog post at Resurgence in which a pastor enamored of The Ultimate Fighter contends that he knows why men aren't so big on church:
The Ultimate FighterSo, I'll just say that while young men are watching tough men compete, the reason they don't go to most churches is because they could take the pastor and can't respect a guy in a lemon-yellow sweater, sipping decaf and talking about his feelings.
I ran across this by way of a response from from Henry's Web which said,
If you determine whether someone is worth listening to based on whether you could take him in a fight, if you despise someone because they wear a lemon-yellow sweater, sip decaf, or talk about their feelings, then you need to seriously reexamine both your intellectual and your spiritual life.
He might be right, but the point still holds. Even though I don't own a lemon yellow sweater and I wouldn't wear one if you bought it for me, I wouldn't last as long as a bull rider in the rodeo if you put me in the ring on The Ultimate Fighter. I did once show a video clip in a sermon from the movie Fight Club, but I am quite sure that's not the same thing.

What I heard at The Church Planters' Boot Camp as I was working on preparing to start King of Peace was that a founding pastor has to pass the Beer Test. Now this was said in a non-denominational, but largely evangelical church setting where drinking alcohol at all, much less for communion, is not always permitted. But the idea was that if the pastor isn't someone you would drink a beer with (or coffee or whatever) then you would probably wander on away from the church before getting connected. They said this mattered less with established church's as there are many more reasons than the pastor to join a church once well established. The claim was that in the early days of meeting in a school (or in our case a house) the pastor has to be someone you would want to spend time with even if it wasn't at church.

So I don't know if this is a more highly evolved answer, but I guess I am suggesting is that guys don't tend to look for a pastor who can blacken their eye or bloody their nose, but someone with whom they wouldn't mind drinking a beverage of choice with while watching The Ultimate Fighter. If you think, I'm right, leave a comment. If you think I'm wrong, meet me on the playground after school and we'll settle this thing there and then.

peace,
Frank+
The Rev. Frank Logue, Pastor

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10 Comments:

  • At 9/18/2007 6:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    So, this is how men choose a pastor? What's the criteria for why women choose a particular pastor and church? Also, whose zipper was unzipped on Sunday?

     
  • At 9/18/2007 7:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    pbr?

     
  • At 9/18/2007 8:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I kind of like the beer test, though I regard it as a bit incomplete. Your further statement specifying someone you would want to spend time with outside of church, clears that up, however, as long as we realize that there are many different ways in which people want to spend time outside of church, and various people with whom they would like to do so.

    With that proviso--good response!

     
  • At 9/18/2007 9:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I believe women choose a church where the Priest is someone they can talk to and feel comfortable doing so. Who genuinely cares for his flock!

     
  • At 9/18/2007 10:10 AM, Blogger The Bosom Serpent said…

    As much as I hate to admit it you may be on to something. You and I have supped many times together and I feel very comfortable having a conversation with you. We even agree to disagree when you are wrong and I am right (especially on weighty theological matters). I have often wondered at the unqualified success of King of Peace. Your personality and approachability are part of the answer.

    Did I just talk about my feelings? AAAARRRGGHHH! Time for aikido!

     
  • At 9/18/2007 1:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    When I changed churches, I chose King of Peace because I knew so many wonderful and happy people who attended there. I knew that it had to have something to do with the pastor. I found it to be true!

    Funny thing: I did drink a beer with Frank and Victoria long before I ever found myself in need of changing churches! You're definitely on to something here!!!!

     
  • At 9/18/2007 4:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'd have a yoo-hoo with you any day!

     
  • At 9/18/2007 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    They still make Yoo-Hoo?

     
  • At 9/19/2007 6:33 AM, Blogger King of Peace said…

    Wow, I used to lov Yoo Hoo and hadn't thought of that sugery chocolate milk in years.

    As to PBR, I think it is like putting the right wine with the right food. In this case, what beer would go with The Ultimate Fighter? It seemed like a natural choice.

    But as Henry said, there are many different ways to hang out, and they certainly don't all involve malt beverages, or even distilled ones.

    peace,
    Frank+

     
  • At 9/21/2007 4:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Of course they still make Yoo-Hoo. Life wouldn't be the same without it. I wonder, though, if it has any milk at all in it? Next stop, google!

     

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